Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Some Anti Gun registry arguments and how to handle them

"More people nationwide are for abolishing the registry than keeping it "


The most recent Decima poll put it at 48 38 in favour of keeping it.

"it has already been proven that the gov't can't enforce the registry."


Sure it can. It has a hard time getting everyone to register guns that predate the registry. However, they have no problem getting people to register new guns.

As for the issue of non compliance, tax evasion, drunk driving and speeding are common place, but that is no cause for getting rid of those laws.

"Koby, you think a winning talking point is:
the LGR will catch Canadian farmers, duck hunters who have not yet, but will, get a criminal record...?"


There are 1.8 million registered gun owners. It does not take a great leap of faith to believe that some will have a criminal record in 10 years time. It is certainly not beyond the grasp of your average Canadian. Of course what makes it especially easy sell is the ability to trot out more than decade's worth of stats showing just how many gun owning "farmers and duck hunters" have been convicted of crime.

"We all support the licensing of people who own firearms and the registration of prohibited or restricted weapons (such as handguns). That's not going to change; this Conservative government is unwavering in that. We know full well that criminals don't register their guns and that's what makes the long gun registry wasteful and ineffective,"



http://www.nsnews.com/news/Chief+Const+Lepine+Save+registry/3539157/story.html

Criminals can not register their guns. Being able to register a gun presupposes that one has a Possession and Acquisition Licence and a criminal record is grounds for being denied a PAL and for a PAL being revoked.

Semantics aside, this argument does not make much sense. Car thieves can not register their ill gotten goods with ICBC either, but I do see anyone giving this as a reason for not having to register cars. To make matters worse for supporters, it nearly impossible to on the one hand support registering hand guns and on the other hand demand that long guns no longer be registered. After all, the reason given for the latter position is that criminals do not register their guns period. Either one supports both or neither.

"Forget about those gangs, the Hell's Angles and your common bank robbers Canadians,
it's them there farmers that MIGHT go rambo that is scaring the h out of our town folk,"


1) 83% are homicides are not gang related. That said, as it allows guns to be traced back to their last legal owner, the registry makes illegal sales and straw purchases more difficult and so helps keep "law-abiding duck hunters and farmers" honest. "Studies have shown that in the US, states with both licensing and registration (versus one or the other) had fewer guns diverted from legal to illegal markets." http://www.aspq.org/DL/Declarationang.pdf

2) There are far more gun incidents in rural Canada than in urban Canada.

3) As far as your average law abiding citizen is concerned, they are infinitely more likely be killed by a loved one than by a gang.

4) The cops get calls by mental health professionals worried about a patient going "rambo" all the time.

West Vancouver police Chief: "We get calls from mental-health providers saying 'We're concerned about a particular individual.' We'll do that check and go and seize (their firearms) so they don't harm themselves or someone else."

Psychiatrist Barbara Kane: “I think we've probably prevented some major events,” says Dr. Barbara Kane, a psychiatrist in Prince George, B.C. The RCMP has called Kane asking whether she is concerned about certain individuals applying to register a gun. She believes such a call prevented tragedy after a millworker was fired. “He could easily have gone into one of the mills and done something bad,” she says. “But we were able to get his guns away from him.”

19 comments:

intfan said...

I am glad that the racist white male GUN NUTS lost today. HAHAHAHAHHA

Now we should charge anti-gun control racist white males with hate crimes and properly re-educate them about real Canadian values.

Long live Canada :)

wilson said...

'The most recent Decima poll put it at 48 38 in favour of keeping it. '

If the majority of Canadians want to keep the registry,
why were all 8 rural Lib MPs whipped,
and still, you won by only 2 votes???

Koby said...

"I am glad that the racist white male GUN NUTS lost today. HAHAHAHAHHA

Now we should charge anti-gun control racist white males with hate crimes and properly re-educate them about real Canadian values.

Long live Canada :)"

Now that sounds like a Conservative astro turfing.

"why were all 8 rural Lib MPs whipped,"

ha ha

I do not know what public opinion polls have do with it. But as for the whipped vote, maybe Liberals thought they needed to whip their 8rural MPs because the Conservatives whipped their 10 Quebec Mps.

intfan said...

Koby, I'm a true red liberal supporter. I am simply overjoyed at seeing the progressive boot stomping on the KKKonservatives faces.

Koby said...

Ok

but

"Re-educate"

"long live Canada"

"KKKonservatives"

Christ dude

intfan said...

Koby, it's a known fact that Conservatives/Reformers are racist. Hence the moniker "KKKonservatives" is quite apt.

Koby said...

Some are sure and Reform party played to some pretty nasty stuff. For example:

Stephen Harper: "You’ve got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society."

However, to caste that wide a net is absurd.

Anonymous said...

There's actually already data even on Breitkreuz' own site* showing that 36% of the 75 people actually accused of homicide between 1997 & 2005 had valid firearms licenses at the time. And 118 of the guns they ID'd as the homicide weapon during those years were registered... and 52% of them were registered to: the accused!

So, yeah, even their "innocent duck hunters and farmers" etc. are arrested for the most serious crimes around, too. And they know it. Damn Harpercrites.

www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/2006_new/106.pdf

ridenrain said...

Some Anti Gun registry arguments and how to handle them

=

Lie.

Worked for Chretien and Martin.

Koby said...

Breitkreuz's argument is weird. His argument is that given that only x number of murders were committed with a registered weapon, the gun registry is somehow a failure. However, given that one of the points of the registry is make it easier for authorities temporarily seize guns, from mentally unstable individuals for example, a low number would also be seen as a marker of success.

If Breitikreuz had clue he would look at the number of people with revoked gun licenses who later committed murder. If the gun registry is working, then that number should be dropping. After all, the gun registry is supposed to make it easier for the authorities to gather up the guns of people whose gun licenses have been revoked. Needless to say, one would have to look at the weapon used. Even if less where using a gun, evidence of substitution would poise a problem.

That being, the data is remarkably sparse and number of such murders probably too small to draw any firm conclusions.

Koby said...

"Some Anti Gun registry arguments and how to handle them

=

Lie.

Worked for Chretien and Martin."

Ha ha. That is all you have to say. I will put that down as an example of how not to handle pro registry arguments.

6:58 PM

ridenrain said...

Let's start off easy..

Provide proof that:

"The most recent Decima poll put it at 48 38 in favour of keeping it. "

Keep in mind that I can cite a poll that has 46% wanting it killed.

Anonymous said...

Ridenrain demands proof that "The most recent Decima poll put it at 48 [vs] 38 in favour of keeping it. "

Um, okay: "A plurality remains of the view it is a bad idea to abolish the long-gun registry. Nationally, 48% were of this view, while 38% feel it is a good idea to scrap the registry. These numbers remain identical to what was recorded just weeks ago." www.harrisdecima.ca/news/releases/201009/927-release-rcmp-report-has-minimal-impact-perceptions-gun-registry

Bonus points: Proof -- self-furnished photographic evidence, no less -- that Ridenrain, the scourge of Liblogs, aka Bill Kiechle of New Westminster, BC is a dufus:

www.facebook.com/bkiechle

(for more info see http://scottdiatribe.canflag.com/2010/09/22/i-guess-someone-didnt-have-good-sources-on-the-gun-registry-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-31170

ridenrain said...

Busted by anonymous.. Bring it on you coward.

Here's my proof:
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/35914/almost_half_of_canadians_would_abolish_the_long_gun_registry

Anonymous said...

well, a pseudonym's not much on an anonynym in the bravery dep't, now, is it; and a poll showing half are against doesn't really do much to trump the poll that says, er, half are for, now, does it; and BTW, it looks like your Capt-Can-In-A-Hat hat could use a little viagra.

ridenrain said...

lumBut we we still see that most Canadians still want the registry gone.

Koby said...

"But we we still see that most Canadians still want the registry gone."

Christ, what we see two polls with different results. One puts the numbers at 48 38 to keep it. The other puts it at 48-40 drop it. The later online the former by phone.

Anonymous said...

yeah, and the online Angus Reid polls are what, by their panel of 1000 internet trolls who get paid to do those surveys, & who spend their time between surveys getting self-reinforced ideas reading what other internet trolls like Ridenrain write, & then confirm them in their poll, which Ridenraid reads & recites back to them, making the circle jerk complete. Conbot truthiness inaction

Bird of Paradise said...

Some of the earlists gun control laws was passed to prevent the newly freed slaves from obtaining firearms and thats the truth for JESSIE JACKSON and his RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION to think over